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Monica
Joined: 10 Mar 2004
Posts: 4933
Location: Egypt
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| Posted: Wed Jun 30, 2004 7:50 pm Post subject: Egyptian TV program discussion on ORFI marriage/haram |
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It was officially concluded by Islamic scholars debating the ORFI marriage issue on an Egyptian TV program last night that ORFI is definitely, absolutely HARAM..unacceptable and totally not recommended for Egyptians to fall into this trap......
Back with A COFFEE more details ... |
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fridaies
Joined: 31 May 2004
Posts: 329
Location: Sharm-Hurghada-Luxour-Cairo
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| Posted: Wed Jun 30, 2004 7:54 pm Post subject: Re: Egyptian TV program discussion on ORFI marriage/haram |
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za3alteenee ya sheekha!!
Monica wrote: It was officially concluded by islamic scholars debating the ORFI marraige issue on an Egyptian TV program last night that ORFI is definitely, absolutely HARAM...
Back with more details and a coffee.... |
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Monica
Joined: 10 Mar 2004
Posts: 4933
Location: Egypt
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| Posted: Wed Jun 30, 2004 7:55 pm Post subject: Re: Egyptian TV program discussion on ORFI marriage/haram |
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I had you in mind ya habebty wallahy!! ah ah ah..
Wait till I get back and tell you the story...bass..you will see why...
fridaies wrote: za3alteenee ya sheekha!!
Monica wrote: It was officially concluded by islamic scholars debating the ORFI marraige issue on an Egyptian TV program last night that ORFI is definitely, absolutely HARAM...
Back with more details and a coffee.... |
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Wedi
Joined: 07 Jun 2004
Posts: 144
Location: South Carolina
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| Posted: Wed Jun 30, 2004 8:42 pm Post subject: Re: Egyptian TV program discussion on ORFI marriage/haram |
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fridaies wrote: za3alteenee ya sheekha!!
Monica wrote: It was officially concluded by islamic scholars debating the ORFI marraige issue on an Egyptian TV program last night that ORFI is definitely, absolutely HARAM...
Back with more details and a coffee....
What does that mean please.....hmmm and does 'wallahy' mean 'friend'?
I'll learn a word a day ha..........so in 50 years I can actually talk to someone :lol: |
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fridaies
Joined: 31 May 2004
Posts: 329
Location: Sharm-Hurghada-Luxour-Cairo
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| Posted: Wed Jun 30, 2004 8:50 pm Post subject: Re: Egyptian TV program discussion on ORFI marriage/haram |
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Allah is God
if u add to it w, then it is like By God...
za3alteenee is that u made me sad..
za3al is sad...
now u have learnt 2 words...u can rest for the next three days!!
ya is something non existent in english..but in arabic we donot usually call out : monica..monica..but rather : ya monica...
sheekha..is a term literally means sheekh, u know like oil sheekh? but the female form...but ...monica...explain please!!
Wedi wrote: fridaies wrote: za3alteenee ya sheekha!!
Monica wrote: It was officially concluded by islamic scholars debating the ORFI marraige issue on an Egyptian TV program last night that ORFI is definitely, absolutely HARAM...
Back with more details and a coffee....
What does that mean please.....hmmm and does 'wallahy' mean 'friend'?
I'll learn a word a day ha..........so in 50 years I can actually talk to someone :lol: |
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Monica
Joined: 10 Mar 2004
Posts: 4933
Location: Egypt
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| Posted: Wed Jun 30, 2004 8:59 pm Post subject: Re: Egyptian TV program discussion on ORFI marriage/haram |
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Wedi ..maybe we should start an arabic thread here just for you? why not ...you start it and ask questions..like how do you say this or that..
Great idea you can call it the:
How do you say this or that in Arabic... :lol: for real!!!
Ok..I am now getting my coffee ...and back on the ORFI issue soon...
fridaies wrote: Allah is God
if u add to it w, then it is like By God...
za3alteenee is that u made me sad..
za3al is sad...
now u have learnt 2 words...u can rest for the next three days!!
ya is something non existent in english..but in arabic we donot usually call out : monica..monica..but rather : ya monica...
sheekha..is a term literally means sheekh, u know like oil sheekh? but the female form...but ...monica...explain please!!
Wedi wrote: fridaies wrote: za3alteenee ya sheekha!!
Monica wrote: It was officially concluded by islamic scholars debating the ORFI marraige issue on an Egyptian TV program last night that ORFI is definitely, absolutely HARAM...
Back with more details and a coffee....
What does that mean please.....hmmm and does 'wallahy' mean 'friend'?
I'll learn a word a day ha..........so in 50 years I can actually talk to someone :lol: |
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Monica
Joined: 10 Mar 2004
Posts: 4933
Location: Egypt
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| Posted: Wed Jun 30, 2004 10:39 pm Post subject: Re: Egyptian TV program discussion on ORFI marriage/haram |
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Back to the topic... 8)
The pogram's title is:
Fil beyut asrar which means there are secrets in households...
Attended the debate, people from EVERY field from psychology to gynecology and Islamic scholars in between ..they all agreed that ORFI is HARAM and is condemned by society and Islam in many ways..because when:
There is no ISH HAR .ANNOUNCEMENT and No witnesses....it is not considered a marriage anyway...
AND It is also considered Haram if the Woman gets pregnant and there are NO RIGHTS for the future baby............and the MAN can easily say that is not my baby...so:
Automatically the baby is:
ebn HARAM...Haram fi Haram...ya haram...A CHILD that is considered a *beep*.... |
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Wedi
Joined: 07 Jun 2004
Posts: 144
Location: South Carolina
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| Posted: Thu Jul 01, 2004 2:07 am Post subject: Re: Egyptian TV program discussion on ORFI marriage/haram |
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Monica wrote: Back to the topic... 8)
The pogram's title is:
Fil beyut asrar which means there are secrets in households...
Attended the debate, people from EVERY field from psychology to gynecology and Islamic scholars in between ..they all agreed that ORFI is HARAM and is condemned by society and Islam in many ways..because when:
There is no ISH HAR .ANNOUNCEMENT and No witnesses....it is not considered a marriage anyway...
AND It is also considered Haram if the Woman gets pregnant and there are NO RIGHTS for the future baby............and the MAN can easily say that is not my baby...so:
Automatically the baby is:
ebn HARAM...Haram fi Haram...ya haram...A CHILD that is considered a *beep*....
What if an Orfi marriage is announced? Isn't the community considered to be witnesses? |
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Laura
Joined: 17 Sep 2004
Posts: 616
Location: Alexandria
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| Posted: Thu Jul 01, 2004 2:15 am Post subject: |
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| The only thing I can say about Orfi is that it seems to me to be a relationship based on conditions, otherwise there would be a marriage, sa7 (correct)? Is money/property a reason to forego the commitment of a marriage? What do you guys think about this? |
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Monica
Joined: 10 Mar 2004
Posts: 4933
Location: Egypt
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| Posted: Thu Jul 01, 2004 2:18 am Post subject: |
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I believe a lot in INTENTIONS though...
The only thing is if a young woman has a child and the father does not recognizes the child it is very sad for all...
Laura wrote: The only thing I can say about Orfi is that it seems to me to be a relationship based on conditions, otherwise there would be a marriage, sa7 (correct)? Is money/property a reason to forego the commitment of a marriage? What do you guys think about this? |
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fridaies
Joined: 31 May 2004
Posts: 329
Location: Sharm-Hurghada-Luxour-Cairo
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| Posted: Thu Jul 01, 2004 2:24 am Post subject: |
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For myself, i believe that some fatawa in Egypt are issued not out of religious reasons but mainly out of regulatory reasons.
I think that any type of marriage that fulfills the criteria of "being publicly announced" and has taken place infront of 2 witnesses is Halal..whether is called Orfi (literaly meaning= according to customs) or whatever.
I think that this is the Islamic point of view too..but the problem is that once u put this definiton, many people will misuse it to their own interests..and so to be on the safe side, the religious authorities would come out with a Fatwa saying it is haram so that they donot get a headache later.
However, as "intention" is always important in any action the muslim takes, then even if he gets marrys orfi or legal and has the intention of getting a divorce after a certain period of time, that is also believed to be Haram..
And again we have a saying in islam "that u have to avoid putting yourself in suspicious situations"...so if this orfi is not really accepted in your society, then why go for it at all?? unless of course u have other social reasons to do that! |
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Monica
Joined: 10 Mar 2004
Posts: 4933
Location: Egypt
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| Posted: Thu Jul 01, 2004 2:36 am Post subject: |
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| the case they were discussing on the program was a shocking discovery of a very educated and progressive Egyptian father: his daughter 25 was pregnant through a Orfi marriage and that the 'hubby' was not taking responsibility...so it was the feddeehha ....scandal |
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Wedi
Joined: 07 Jun 2004
Posts: 144
Location: South Carolina
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| Posted: Thu Jul 01, 2004 2:38 am Post subject: |
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| Wouldn't that be a shame on the Orfi husband's family as well? |
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Monica
Joined: 10 Mar 2004
Posts: 4933
Location: Egypt
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| Posted: Thu Jul 01, 2004 2:42 am Post subject: |
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The deal was that the father...was handling it in a progressive way..standing by his daughter first and get her through her emotional situation and then start to find out a way to prove the child is the hubby's son..and then check the possibility of legalizing without complications mostly for the child's right and dignity and the daughter's too and then it was the dilemma what happened to his daughter's BRAIN...and it came out that many Islamic scholars misguide young people and tell them it is not haram etc...but neglect to talk about the repercussions IF a baby is on its way...
Wedi wrote: Wouldn't that be a shame on the Orfi husband's family as well? |
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fridaies
Joined: 31 May 2004
Posts: 329
Location: Sharm-Hurghada-Luxour-Cairo
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| Posted: Thu Jul 01, 2004 2:46 am Post subject: |
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I would think that with DNA testing, parenthood can be easily verified..
I think it is more to do with the scandal...
In most Arabic countries, when 2 people sin or put it mildly are bad, then the woman is the one who gets the scandal and usually the man gets away with it...may be now it is changing but generally that is the rule.
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