Your Egypt

[ScienceSailor]

Ladies/Gentlemen

Our Egypt's Ex King Tut belongings will be on the Road to Europe/America to raise money to build a new National Museum in Egypt, A Begging Campaign that We the Egyptians have been clever at. As a Heating PR Preliminary Campaign, the American sponsors of that coming trip have made a Radiation Scan of The King's remaining body to find a clear cut evidence to explain how the King had died, and to add American spices to an old story (Natural or Assasination Death) they - the Americans and their Egyptian Bootlickers scientsts- they managed to draw a sketch of how Ex King Tut face looked alike offering him a light/fair skin color and saying King Tut seems to be a White Cocasion not a Black Nubian as most of his Dynasty.

It makes me feel ashamed/cheap to see a Very Egyptian matter discussed and people decide what should have been done Almost entirely by Non Egyptian citizens.
Here in I borrow a discussion from another American website for the Egyptian viewers at YE to know about and Hopefully share in with their thoughts based on our cultural heritage. The website address is NationalGeography.com.
I wish to add:
I remember very well How the Europeans reacted on the discovery a few years ago of the sunken ship The Titanic at the bottom of the Atlantic, the relatives of the drowned passengers said:

Leave our Dead or whatever leftover of their bodies "resting" at their graves within the ship remains. Don't disturb their graves with your High Tech tools to satisfy your curiosity. And their wish was and has been respected.

The Titanic's passengers were mostly ambitious low/middle class Europeans adventurous enough to cross the Atlantic to make it in the New World, non of them were Ex King like our Great King Tut.

Here is part of the discussion and it has my contribution as well:

What our readers are saying...

Name:
Koi

Date/Time:
May 30, 2005 9:21 PM

Whether or not King Tut was black or white is the most ridiculous argument I've ever heard; he could be purple for all I care- the color of his skin is not what makes him so curious or so legendary. Even if years upon years from now, we discover that he was black/white, what would it matter? He'd still be the enigmatic boy-king who has been fawned and puzzled over for generations.
*Its bigots like the one that posted here that degrade their own race and make the other look superior*

Name:
Koi

Date/Time:
May 30, 2005 9:16 PM

Whether or not King Tut was black or white is the most ridiculous argument I've ever heard; he could be purple for all I care- the color of his skin is not what makes him so curious or so legendary. Even if years upon years from now, we discover that he was black/white, what would it matter? He'd still be the enigmatic boy-king generations have fawned and puzzled over for generations.

Name:
Anoa

Date/Time:
May 30, 2005 8:52 PM

To the person who thinks acknowledgement of African origins of ancient Egypt is being "politically correct": The Nubians of today are the direct descendents of the ancient Egyptians. They are black. Instead of worrying about political correctness, worry about cultural hegemony--it is the cause of much stress in the world today. The truth is that Arabs have been pushing south for 5000 years. Witness what is happening in Sudan. Also, where is there evidence of ancient pyramids? Europe? UAR? No--it is in Ethiopia. Africans brought and perfected pyramid-building skills north with them on the northern flowing Nile River. All people carry their culture with them. Try to find antecedents of the culture of ancient Kemet in Europe or Asia without distorting the truth. That would be politically correct.

Name:
Soledad Silva

Date/Time:
May 29, 2005 7:15 PM

I have always been fascinated with Ancient Egypt and especially with the young pharoah Tutankhamun. I have tried to learn as much as possible about him, but not much is known about his reign. Thanks to National Geographic, I now have some idea of how he might have looked. What makes him so beautiful and exotic in my eyes is the fact that he is still a mystery to all of us.
I think that all of the dead deserve some respect and should be left in peace, no matter their tittle. However, seeing as how we can only know more by disturbing the remains of King Tut, he should be handled with care and with respect. He might not been a king anymore but he was a human being and should be allowed to rest in his burial chamber. I wouldn't want anyone handling my remains after I am dead and especially not if they are to be mangled.

Name:
Farao

Date/Time:
May 29, 2005 3:30 PM


Ik vind dat je de doden met rust moet laten! Wie vind het nou leuk om aan een dooie te prutsen?؟
xxx

Name:
Julie

Date/Time:
May 29, 2005 12:58 AM

Thank you for the wonderful article and interactive site for the tomb of Tut. I was there in Oct/Nov 2004 and found this renewed the trip for me. I never felt any disrespect for the tombs, mummies and other artifacts from all the visitors. I felt most of the Egyptians are proud of their long past and our interest in it. Also it is quite humbling to realize that we are not unique to our time, and even 3300 years ago we are much the same as people.

Name:
K. E. Green

Date/Time:
May 28, 2005 10:25 PM

Respectful review and research of ancient artifacts/remains to afford learning to later (current) generations in no way constitutes desecration or disrespect, any more that very careful review and reading of an original Guttenberg Bible, or an original ancient scroll (or Torah) is disrespectful or desecrating. This holds as long as finds are eventually returned to their condition at modern discovery (as closely as technologically possible at the time), and applicable religious respect(s) are paid to human remains, if it is known (or strongly suspected) what those may be.

Name:
colleen

Date/Time:
May 28, 2005 1:14 PM

Does White America want to know why it's important that at least some aspect of the glorious past belongs to non-white? When we were taken from the shores of Africa everything was stripped from us. We were seen to be less than human with no history or past to speak of. Only the Majority had history and a glorious past, we were held to be swinging from the trees just waiting to be rescued and civilized by the 'Great White Massa'.
It is so preposterous to assume that just because someone has 'white' features or 'black' features that those things decide a person's race. My God how many Watusi, Masai, Somali, Tuareg or Ethiopians have what would be thought of as 'black' features. How many Blacks are seen on TV and in magazines that don't have 'black' features. The powers that be decreed a long time ago that 'one drop of black blood makes you black' and that still holds today. Do Alicia Keyes, Jennifer Beals, Halle Berry, Jazmin Guy have 'black' features? Yet they are considered Black women.
Here is the acid test: If Ramses, King Tut, Nefertiti, Cheops, Hannibal, or more recently Anwar Sadat were walking down the back roads of some southern town and these illustrious leaders came upon a group of good old boys in white hoods. What would the reaction be of these good old boys, beer or a bullet? See, that clarifies things doesn't it?
I found it so ignorant that a magazine that has documented the range of human diversity thru all these years would fall into such a simplistic attitude.

Name:
blackwoman

Date/Time:
May 28, 2005 7:38 AM

I get so tired of the invasion of white superiority. There is no way King Tut was white.
science has proven time and again, that the first human on this planet was of nubian decent. If you have 20/20 vison, the depictions of ancient Egyptians appear more nubian than white. Now suddenly you come up with a face that looks white!
I am appauled that you would stoop so low than to continue to rob the Black Race of its true history and cultural which included the entire contintent of Africa. Egypt is still in Africa you know.

Name:
Hanna

Date/Time:
May 27, 2005 3:53 PM

I feel that science is important, more important that letting bodies lay in piece, his soul isn't even in his body any more. I don't mind if someone digs up my body for science someday.

Name:
Jack Dolph

Date/Time:
May 27, 2005 1:59 PM


Since Tut left his body a long time ago, I say let the scientist run their tests. It interests us as readers and provides new historical information. If Tut is not "at peace" wherever he is then moving his carcass around is not going to make a difference. Great article though.

Name:
john smith

Date/Time:
May 27, 2005 12:08 PM


I am not sure about how king tut was killed or maybe even if it was a brutal murder but i think what ever happened was planned somehow by some one

Name:
Marije

Date/Time:
May 27, 2005 10:00 AM

Personally I do feel like we should respect the ancient bodies and leave them be. However, we do live in a world where all antiquities will be stolen and ruined if we fail to protect them properly. Given the situation (theft, disrespect and poverty!) we ought to protect as many items as possible. The ones that remain hidden under the sand should stay hidden.

Name:
louis billiet

Date/Time:
May 27, 2005 5:31 AM

It is allowed, but with respect.

Name:
rajendra bhoyar

Date/Time:
May 27, 2005 3:24 AM

i am a mad boy

Name:
Alison Thomas

Date/Time:
May 26, 2005 8:24 PM

Congratulations to National Geographic for their interesting artical on Tutankhamen.
I have been interested in this subject for many years, I think since first seeing a picture the the gold funeral mask when I was a kid, and always look forward to more information.
I agree that it is wrong to disturb the remains of the dead, but in cases like this, I'm sure that as the mag said if things had been left in the tomb as they were back when it was discovered, tomb robbers would have entered and I'm sure there would be nothing to look at today. I am one of those lucky people who has travelled to Egypt & seen both Tutankhamens treasures in the Egyptian museum & been in his tomb as well, and I felt a lot of respect & awe standing & looking down onto his buial place & seeing his treasures.

Name:
ScienceSailor

Date/Time:
May 26, 2005 6:08 PM

Just a Moment, Can you tell what this all about King Tut facial/ethnic reshaping or how he died in the current common Egyptians' interests?
I guesss; Nothing and thanks God that National Geography the Magazine / the Sattelite channel is in English not in Arabic.
As a Moslem Egyptian, the Pharoas are almost absent from my intelect, the Quran repeatedly address them as challengers to the god's Prophets (Mosas in Particular), ie. speak of them with negative attitude.
So, it is a very sensitive subject that our government skillfuly deal with it without provoking a religous row.
Zahi Awass or Nowas whatever and his American friends are in their academic castles and I wish not to enforce that sick American attitude of Black or White on the Egyptian society. We are still homogenous society and no problem seeing a Nubian man married to a Blond, no one will shoot him in the streets like in America.
Salam.

Name:
Katie

Date/Time:
May 26, 2005 12:08 PM

I love science and I'm also very spiritual. I believe there is a balance of both in this world. I understand the fact that some poeple believed him to be a god but I also believe that we need to studie humans from the past. We need to find out where we came from and who's related to whom. I think the scientists should run tests and then when they are done they can place him back where he belongs.

Name:
jared

Date/Time:
May 26, 2005 10:27 AM

what type of lens do you use for portrait shoots?

Name:
Edson

Date/Time:
May 26, 2005 12:29 AM

I think it's great to see what happend 3300 years ago.
we can always learn from the past i can wait to see it in Chicago on 2006 exhibition
since i was a kid i always heard about King Tut now it's finally here don't worry about other people stories about respecting the dead they are already dead.......
Big Deal......................respect the living....................
Edson

Name:

Date/Time:
May 26, 2005 12:25 AM

Does it really matter if King Tut was white or black? And yes it would be sensational if some Egyptian family was linked to him genetically, but everyone has the same nucleotide bases anyway -- theirs would just be close to Tut's sequence. What does it really matter?

Name:
Claire

Date/Time:
May 26, 2005 12:12 AM

Remains of the dead should be respected and not altered. The tombs were hidden for a reason other than tomb robbings -- the dead are not to be disturbed. These ancient people worked hard to put together a tomb, probably for religious reasons we will never know of because they have been lost over time. But that is how things are supposed to work -- things (traditions and people both) die and time moves on. That is how evolution works. Let Tutanknamun's body rest in peace as it was meant to.

Name:
Peter Swift

Date/Time:
May 25, 2005 8:17 PM


At this address the photo of Tut is labeled "Color coded sex change"
http://f.chtah.com/i/35/304579799/POM_JUN_05_indexphoto.html

The text says nothing about that being done. I am confused.

Name:
Hannah B.

Date/Time:
May 25, 2005 5:52 PM

I believe that in this case, Tut is being "desecrated". We have plenty of information from the artifacts and heiroglyphs from his tomb without constantly handling his body. At this point in time, what possible difference could it make if Tut died of natural causes or was murdered. Science can never be 100% sure on this issue no matter what tests they run. Tut's body should be left at rest and not on display at all. All you have to ask yourself is, "Is this how I would like my remains treated in the future."

Name:
Meredith Marshall

Date/Time:
May 25, 2005 2:23 PM

I completely loved this article about King Tut! I am continually fascinated at ancient Egyptian rituals and the art of mummification. I dont think digging up his remains was entirely necessary, but I will admit that I have been curious as to his cause of death ever since the day I learned about him in my History class. Rather than critisizing the editors of N.G. for this article, I applaud them acting on this rare oppourtunity. Technology now has become so much more advanced since 1922, and I'm sure in years to come we will dig up his body again and attempt to answer the question about how he died. Being a senior in high school, I'm quite grateful for this being published.

Name:
Anoa

Date/Time:
May 25, 2005 10:27 AM

to "Thought" and "Kefaya"
I do not like the digging up of graves. The fact is that modern Egyptians derive at least 30% of their economy from the interest in African antiquities. So, there is a strong motivation to claim a culture that originates from someone else and justify grave robbing. Secondly, "Thought" shows good thought and good science in service to the truth. I appreciate that. I also wonder what happened to the melanin studies that were done regarding the ethnicity of the early "egyptians" (a Greek word--not an Arabic one). Thirdly, I thought this was a forum of intelligent people honestly seeking the truth. No one should be told to "shut up" just because one does not agree with them. That attitude is the source of much of the world's conflict today. I have been in the tombs, I have been in the Cairo Museum. I know what I saw. If that makes me an "Afrocentrist" so be it. At least they are honorable truth seekers who do not try to stifle anyone else.

Name:
Elbio R. Barilari

Date/Time:
May 25, 2005 9:09 AM

National Geographic, dear friends: I congratulate you as a loyal reader and an intellectual who really values your fight against non-scientific views and the trench you represent in the way of the current obscurantist, fundamentalist offensive (by reactionaries from all religions). For ex.: your articles on Darwin and Darwinism.
However, I cannot congratulate you for the feature on King Tut. What a shallow piece of journalism. Finding the cause of his death is more spectacle than science, like the Salieri-Mozart affair.The so called forensic reconstruction you presented is cheesy and a-scientific or non-scientific. The head looks like make-up for some Hollywood movie or a wax museum. On top of that, you are jumping with very little thinking in the black & white discussion about the Egyptians, a legitime debate, of course, but one that is deteriorating amidst racially biased allegations from both sides (as you can tell from several opinions harvested in this very same forum. Nobody want to consider the Egyptian diversity anymore?).
But what really amazes me, is the gossipy way you "wackily" dismiss Akhenaten. You chose to quote Mr. Ray Johnson saying: "It must have been a horrific time." Period. Of course, Akhenaten's struggle with the priests' power and his "invention" of monotheism was not an easy task. However, the king sparked a blossoming period of the Egyptian civilization and, almost as a by-product of his religious reform, he put the pillars in place for the development of Jewish, Christian and Muslim theological views. Dismissing him as "wacky", as Mr. Johnson asserts, while you underline the unconsequential rule of the young, submissive Tutankhamun sounds a little "Bill O'Reillyish" or like the History Channel's attempts of downgrading F.D. Roosevelt's legacy through sound bites.

Name:
k

Date/Time:
May 25, 2005 3:31 AM


comlpete nonsense. so what if reason of death is discovered? waste of time and money.

Name:
Fran
Date/Time:
May 25, 2005 2:53 AM

Over the weekend, May 22-25,2005, I watche the program, The Assassination of King Tut on the Discovery Channel. At the end of the program, the storyteller gave insight into the belief that after death, "as long as the names were remembered and spoken, the Egyptians lived on forever." Can someone give me information as to where to find information on this belief?

Name:
Thought

Date/Time:
May 25, 2005 1:45 AM

The skin color utilized in the reconstruction of King Tut is arbitrary. One could bury Paul Kagame, the Tutsi President of Rwanda in a tomb, dig him up a thousand years from now and deem him “North African Caucasoid” as well. Modern biological anthropology indicates that East Africans have had narrower faces, noses and less prognathism than Western Africans for thousands of years. Africa is the birth place of humanity. This means that humans have lived in Africa longer than anywhere lese and hence have had more time to develop unique phenotypic traits. The Narrow noses and faces of East Africans is related to adoption to a hot-dry climate, not mythological ‘Caucasoid’ incursions. Modern biological anthropology has proven that racial classification systems are actually psuedo-science. The Y-Clade and mtDNA of modern **SOUTHERN** Egyptian people indicates that they spread up from the Horn of East Africa after the end of the last ice age. The dominate Y-Clade among modern southern Egyptians is E3b which derives from the area of Somalia. The Egyptian language likewise is a part of the Afro-Asiatic language family which originated in the Horn of Africa as well. Of course the genetic and skeletal data indicate that the Egyptian population changed a great deal after the New Kingdom. Greek, Roman, Assyrian, Persian, Arab and Turkish invasions have certainly altered the original Black African genetic and phenotypic variability of the ORIGINAL Egyptians. Utilizing MODERN Egyptians as a reference point for ANCIENT Egyptians is akin to utilizing modern Anglo-Saxon descendent Texans as the reference point for the pre-Columbus Native people of Texas. The Tut reconstruction is a joke....

Name:
Kefaya

Date/Time:
May 24, 2005 11:49 PM

I am so happy that National Geographic undertook this reconstruction effort. The reconstruction validated what I had thought all along- that the ancient Egyptians were very similar to modern Egyptians and were indeed a Caucasoid group. This is further supported by a variety of genetic and DNA studies as well as the reconstructions of Ramses II and Amun-her Khepeshef. Considering that Tut's dynasty was one of the most likely ones to have Nubian admixture, we can assume that other dynastic Egyptians looked similar to or more Caucasoid than King Tut. To all the Afrocentrists out there, please shut up, the Nubians are not the descendants of the ancient Egyptians, modern Egyptians are. As a modern Egyptian, I am pleased at the result of this reconstruction. As for his body's desecration, it was well worth it. The zeal and enthusiasm of Zahi Hawass and the various forensic anthropologists as well as the professional support of National Geographic combined to answer one of history's greatest mysteries and reveal to us the face of one of history's most prominent figures. The Pharoahs always wanted to be remembered for time immemorial, now King Tut will be seen by people thousands of years after he died, living eternally in the confines of a computer screen. If this isn't what the Egyptians wanted, then what is?

Name:
gaby vasquez

Date/Time:
May 24, 2005 10:51 PM

dear man i am studing for a egipt report with my freands so i want to naw if you naw how King tut dreasd .. by gaby vas

Name:
?

Date/Time:
May 22, 2005 6:11 PM

I belive that we should not have open his (or eney outher) tumb out of respct for, Him, the dead, and the fact that hed obeusly didn't want his tumb opend however, now that we have we should find out about how he died and other information.
P,S. What if he dide of beaing seriously ill ? how could ditect that on a 3,300 mumifide boddy?

Name:
Alexa S. (age 13)

Date/Time:
May 21, 2005 9:49 PM

I think it would be great to know why King Tut died, and although I am an Ancient Egyptian enthusiast, I've got to comment about King Tut's probable wishes. The thing is, would you like to be dug up from your grave? If you would, would you like to be prodded and have things broken off you? This may just be my opinion, but I would not like that.

Name:
Brandy

Date/Time:
May 21, 2005 6:07 PM


First I would like to say that I admire how much respect and dedication that Dr. Zahi Hawass puts into all of his discoveries and explorations. You can tell from the recent Tut television special (and other shows) that he cares deeply about Egyptology and makes sure that all artifacts are handled carefully. As long as all arhaelogists, scientists, and Egyptologists treat the deceased with respect/care and that their research is being conducted for the soul purpose of history along with the research being conducted carefully, then I am all for it. So needless to say, I don't care if they are scientists, they still need to respect the dead.

Name:
Fong YW

Date/Time:
May 21, 2005 3:48 AM

In the June issue, the plug map shows that China has the same colour as Britain, and some African coutries. But in reality, China uses the same plug as Australia.

Name:
Caitlin

Date/Time:
May 20, 2005 7:29 PM

I think they should be really careful with his remains because they can provide background into what ancient Egyptian life and burial was like. Howard Carter was really rough with Tut's remains back in 1922 and he shouldn't have just put such important remains in a plain wooden coffin when King Tut was already finely buried. They should have left him alone. I think history really does preclude scientific research in this case.

Name:
Rubaiat Ahmed

Date/Time:
May 20, 2005 5:56 PM

I totally agree with Jamie, i`m up for DNA testing. The DNA sequencing will allow for a correct represenation of King Tut`s lineage and help to understand the geneitc variability and compare it to other mummies at the same time. It should help to dispell whether Tut was white or black or whatever. The fact of the matter is that Ancient Egyptians were quite different than modern day Egyptians. Their wall and papyrus paintings always dipict the Egyptians as fair tomoderate skin. They certainly painted dark skined figures as well-like their prisoners from Hittites and such. So their paintings may offer a clue as well as the DNA testing.

Name:
Charles Downes

Date/Time:
May 20, 2005 3:29 PM

Jamie hit the nail on the head. Considering the Genographic Project is an NGS effort, and the fact that King Tut resided at the crossroads of the known ancient world, I would have thought it a natural extension to dovetail a factual, scientific quest into the origins of King Tut by including his DNA in the efforts to "trace the roots of human history".

Name:
Anoa

Date/Time:
May 20, 2005 12:39 PM

To the person who thinks acknowledgement of African origins of ancient Egypt is being "politically correct": The Nubians of today are the direct descendents of the ancient Egyptians. They are black. Instead of worrying about political correctness, worry about cultural hegemony--it is the cause of much stress in the world today. The truth is that Arabs have been pushing south for 5000 years. Witness what is happening in Sudan. Also, where is there evidence of ancient pyramids? Europe? UAR? No--it is in Ethiopia. Africans brought and perfected pyramid-building skills north with them on the northern flowing Nile River. All people carry their culture with them. Try to find antecedents of the culture of ancient Kemet in Europe or Asia without distorting the truth. That would be politically correct.

Name:
J. Baraka Love

Date/Time:
May 20, 2005 12:29 PM

This recreation is a disgrace to the Truth. Arabs and Europeans continue to rewrite history and create a sense of cognitive dissonance to those who can see and who know better. Where were the African scholars on this project? Dr. Theophile Obenga to name a most prominent one, Ivan Van Sertima as another. Tutankhamen was not a pale-skinned, effeminate white boy. Even his tomb drawings show how dark the people were. The nose on his mask was much broader. The statues in the Cairo museum show him as black. Europeans and Arabs cannot claim the early history of Kemet (Egypt) and be credible. Do the world a service and be honest with what is before your eyes. Include African scholars. You will not find understanding of ancient history by excluding them. May God have mercy on your souls.

Name:
Jamie

Date/Time:
May 19, 2005 2:35 PM

I've written a few times before at this forum and at other forums but I didn't add my email address. I did this time. I'd also like to say that I liked the comments of Ms. Bocello. She's nice and gracious and appreciative, which is good to express. I am glad the researchers shared their finds with us-but there is a market for it( a need to) because wisdom was always shared world wide/media -wide or else it doesn't matter.Some info. does matter like vaccines and education and terror news because it affects all of us.But we wouldn't all drop dead if we didn't know who King Tut was.

Name:
Jamie

Date/Time:
May 19, 2005 1:23 PM

DNA TESTING FOR TUT. I'm an old DNA advocate-it's exciting to know the exact group a human came from. It makes existence seem timeless, like you live forever, just a continuum of the former years. And, it gives credit where it's due as well as allow blame to be placed on the real perpetrators. I hope King Tut will be DNA tested and linked to a modern day family in Egypt. DNA testing can be done on viable body remains up to 12,000 years old. Tut's only 3,300 years old, maybe there's some DNA left in his teeth.

Name:
Jim Farris

Date/Time:
May 18, 2005 9:13 PM


There are literally thousands of ancient egyptian paintings by the egyptians themselves which depict themselves and their immediate neighbor's skin colors. As such, the notion that ancient egyptians were black merely shows the depths that modern "politically correct" scientists and historians will sink to re-write history and archaeology to suit their political beliefs. The ancient egyptians were not black. They painted nubians as dark, and themselves as more brown to tan. It's really as simple as that. A historian who attempts to disprove this point merely proves that they value political correctness over reality. This is not to denegrate the accomplishments and achievements of their neighbors, the nubians, who were black. However, the egyptians themselves were not.

Name:
Jim Farris

Date/Time:
May 18, 2005 9:12 PM

I apologize for the double-post, it was entirely unintentional. =(

Name:
Dr Robert Danti

Date/Time:
May 18, 2005 7:36 PM

Hello....I felt it strange that the most obvious was overlooked. King Tut's tomb was
designed by those that worshipped and adored him...I feel they would not have
dared to alter the image they knew of him on his sarcophagus and it would seem logical to me that is a closer resemblance to him than the carefully executed reconstruction of him that bears striking resemblance to Barbara Streisand.
It would seem to be a case of reconstructionist history rather than reconstruction.
Sincerely,
Dr Danti

Name:
CONNIE BOTELLO

Date/Time:
May 18, 2005 1:42 PM

The recreation of Tuntankamun´s face is really a great satisfaction for all the people that for many years had been a big work for descovery the real identy of one of the famous Egyptian´s Kings. Congratulation and thanks for your time, for teach us your work and your succeful whit this investigation.

P.D. sorry for my letter, my englhis it´s no so good.I only speak spanish.

Name:
B.D.L BLADER

Date/Time:
May 18, 2005 12:53 PM

TUTS HEAD IS HUGE! I PERSONALY THINK THAT HE DIED FROM GENGRENE! LATER! :*)

Name:
Leota Terry

Date/Time:
May 18, 2005 11:04 AM

I do feel uneasy about digging up human remains. I can see the value in studying the
remains, but also see it as dececration. Careful handling and reinterment are defintitely a
must. I would rather confine research to artifacts, but leave bodies at rest.

Name:
Victor Brown, DSW

Date/Time:
May 18, 2005 8:34 AM

As fascinating as are KIng "Tut" and other finds of ancient burials, musn't we ask how we would feel if our mother or father or any other ancestor was dug up, probed and taken apart, and displayed to all and sundry? As vital as science in all its forms is surely there are limits of fundamental respect beyond which we ought not to go.

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[Alisa]

Science Sailor,

I suppose in your address to 'ladies and gentlemen" using the "our Tut", you perhaps excluded foreigners, but I personally do not care.

Your own obsessesion to bash America at every corner for everything and anything, is really annoying.

I have not read all the stuff you copied and pasted off the net, as I do not care to read people's opinions before i know the facts myself. I invite you to exercise the same approach from time to time at least...

Instead of reding commentary of people online, would not it be better to enrich yourself reading some decent literature about this particular event you are talking about.

Both June 2005 issue of Smithsonian and Natiaonal Geographic have articles on Tut and his forthcoming visit outside of Egypt. The photography is breath taking. There is no word mentioned about Tut's belongings to either white or blacks. Read those instead and start appreciating decent people in America and true egyptologists America does have. Myself I am keeping those magazines. They are totaly astonishing. And by the way, AS USUAL, the commentator is America's favorite Zahi Hawass. Zahi Hawass is a household name for everybody in America who watches History Channel and programs on Ancient Egypt... Does not it tell you smth that here we are not color obsessed as you try to portray in your constant attempts to bash America left and right for everything and anything??? :roll:

[moll]

ScienceSailor...........honestly, you have SUCH a chip on your shoulder! If anybody's taking a racist view of this it's you.......

I remember years ago, there was a touring exhibition called 'Gold of the Pharoahs', it only came to a few places in the world but Edinburgh was one of them, and the Scottish newspapers were all full of what an honour this was to be one of the chosen venues.......I took a class of 11 year olds there, it was absolutely MOBBED with people ooooohing and aaaahing, and I'm sure there were many people who became fascinated by Egypt because of it....and yet it sounds like you're saying, all these treasures are ours, why should we share them with the rest of the world.

I didn't even read your whole post, to be honest........maybe I've got it wrong, but is that how you really feel?

[Alisa]

moll wrote: ScienceSailor...........honestly, you have SUCH a chip on your shoulder! If anybody's taking a racist view of this it's you.......



Moll, I totaly agree.

PEOPLE MARVEL AT ANCIENT EGYPT AS IT IS for its wonders alone...

Not to mention sarcasm of the efforts to bring Tut to the world... Science Sailor, you are one of hell of arrogant old man, more arrogant than many Americans taken together :roll: that is no joke.
:twisted:

[Ausar]

Science Sailor, Western Egyptology has always had an obcession about what race the ancient Egyptians were. Only recently did the mainstream academia admit that Egypt was a melting pot and that Egyptians have always been a mixture of various ethnic groups. Some Egyptologist even boldly stated the dark color that many modern Egyptians had came from importation of ''negroe'' slaves into Egypt during the pharaonic era. Thus misegenation was explained as the demise of the ancient Egyptians.

Please read each commenrs carefully that people are posting. Notice that many loosely throw around the term ''caucasoid''. Did you know the term caucasoid is not reflective of only white people but Somalis,Ethiopians,Indians from India,and modern Northern Africans are considered caucasoid by anthropologist.


The direct desendants of the ancient Egyptians are the modern Upper Egyptians. The Upper Egyptians have a skin tone that ranges from light to dark brown color. Instead of a modern Upper Egyptian being used as a model they used a Cairene or Alexandrian Egyptian whose complexion is not reflective of the Luxor-Aswan area where Tut-ankh-amun and his family came from.


Science Sailor, I can send you many anthropological studies that have been done on the remains of the ancient Egyptians.

[KayCee]

LoL I had to laugh at the opening of your post SS... shows what you know about what is taught in America...

I remember in I think it was 3rd grade the first time I learned of egypt & NO WHERE in that lesson was race discussed. Simply put it was said to be EGYPTIAN only. No black, no white.

Moreover, every likness of (as u say) *Your Tut* has always been medium brown skin! <<<<< Imformational only.

Every show on egypt that you can see on the history channed or Discovery channel(s) use egyptian actors fo rthe re enactment of the stories being told.

Remember SS, Just because you read it on the net, does not always make it true! :wink:

[ScienceSailor]

Hi EveryBody
It looks as if The Guns of Navaro (sorry, it was an old movie, beeter say Guns of YE) have been alarmed to Greet Me with Ignorance/Racism/Hating Every Thing American. I copy/pasted part of a Forum and called the Egyptian YE Viewers to read it and better read the whole discussion so I wrote the website address (NationalGeography.com) and asked them to share "their" views.
Instead of commenting on what is written in the Forum, The Guns of Navaro selected attacking me, as usual, to Terrorize me with their sharp edged claws. I smile as I see just emotional reactions pouring Denial of anything that could be negative or not authentic about America, an Intellectual Terror, I guess!

To those angry westerners I selected for them what a Gentleman above had wrote:

Name:
Dr Robert Danti

Date/Time:
May 18, 2005 7:36 PM

Hello....I felt it strange that the most obvious was overlooked. King Tut's tomb was
designed by those that worshipped and adored him...I feel they would not have
dared to alter the image they knew of him on his sarcophagus and it would seem logical to me that is a closer resemblance to him than the carefully executed reconstruction of him that bears striking resemblance to Barbara Streisand.
It would seem to be a case of reconstructionist history rather than reconstruction.
Sincerely,
Dr Danti

Please, just be patient / tolerant (forgetting you Hate ScienceSailor) enough to read the Gentleman's thoughts and let me know your comment.

Isn't it a coincidence that Barbra Striesand is a Jewish woman?
or the Gentleman feared to say it litterally? Any relevance to the Israeli attempts to steal our Great History?

Just innocently/barely/honestly/unintentionally asking a simple question and this doesn't mean I believe the answer is Yes.

Have A Very Nice Evening with a Warm Water-Flowing Shower if you Get Angry with me Again.

[moll]

wow, ScienceSailor........and I thought I had paranoid tendencies :shock:

I absolutely agree with KayCee, when I was at school and the subject of Ancient Egyptians came up, the question of their skin colour was never even mentioned, I have NO idea why some people get so steamed up about it, who cares?

I just don't understand why you're accusing anyone else of being racist, when it seems to matter so much more to you than to them.

[moll]

ScienceSailor wrote:


Just innocently/barely/honestly/unintentionally asking a simple question and this doesn't mean I believe the answer is Yes.

Have A Very Nice Evening with a Warm Water-Flowing Shower if you Get Angry with me Again.


I don't think the title of this topic is 'just innocently/barely/honestly/unintentionally asking a simple question, the title is intended to provoke if you ask me :evil:

PS I'm NOT American either

[Alisa]

Exactly, Kay Cee and Moll!

[ScienceSailor]

A Quiz:

* Name the American (United States) Presidents that managed to get to the White House since George Washington having any other ethnic "roots" other than the WASPS (G Kennedy was exceptionally Catholic)?
WASP: the Anglo Saxon Protestant Person
Litterally Speaking: Name the AfroAmerican (Used to be called in America *beep* then Blacks) Presidents since George Washington?
Answer: None
Forget for a while terms like Democracy/Human Rights/Global Leadership.

* List the Number/Names of the integrated (Black & White) American (USA) Universities that has a Black Man/Woman as a President? If found What their percentage among the Whity?

* Name the Country that has a Gang called Klo Klox Clan that worhip the WASP Superioririty and the No Right of any other Race/Religion to colive with them?
Answer: America

* Name the Large-Sized Manufacturing/Trade Companies in USA that have their Owner a Black Man/Woman?
if Exist What the percentage among the WASPs?

Conclusion: If Race can be traced in the Highest Political-Power Position, in Education, in Economy so what is left to be considered Not Racially Discriminating?

I Repeat, When I write a post in a Forum I don't look for Praise/Admiration, it is a Waste of Time and Energy if I just write what I expect not to "provoke" the others, I write what I believe in and I am / have never asked anyone to Say Yes You are Right.
the above title has A Question Mark And Also 2 !! following it.
There is an initiation from my side to find answers, A Question, Every Question has an answer with either Yes or No, and I didn't call for those who can say Yes to me to write it and ask those who say No to me to look for another thread to write in.

Again, Where are the Egyptians in this Forum?
Wish to find Egyptian Views, whether agreeying with me or Have something else to share with and enrich this Forum.

[Alisa]

SS,

You are not objective. Period. That is your limitation, not the problem of the provocation per se.

Answers to your quiz? Momentarially as well as an evaluation of the design of your quiz in the first place. But perhaps, it is an invite to Egyptians. So why bother?

Nobody says you have to seek admiration or anything else of the kind. But do not forget to stop to think before somebody like Raymon (perfectly egyptian) writes some opinion contrary to yours. Perhaps you are seeking a confirmation, but all you get is a challenge to your posts, which you cannot withstand. It is one of your numerous limitations. If you could have a simple dialogue with people when you answer people's questions, write a valid counterargument instead of monologues, your opinions would have been respected, regardless of the controversy you post.

[Dienrose]

Alisa wrote: SS,

You are not objective. Period. That is your limitation, not the problem of the provocation per se.


:thumright:
I tried discussing this on another board with you, and then figured just to leave it - why bother?
SS, what background do you have regarding Americans?
Do you know any?
Have you ever lived there?

On a more relevant (than what you have been posting) note regarding the depiction of King Tut...
at a gathering last week with a few notable Egyptologists, I heard them commenting on various versions of how King Tut would look.
From what they said, the French first depicted him with a nose like Charles DeGaulle - which I was told looked stuck on like a "Mr.Potatohead" nose - totally out of place - and then adjusted it.
The Egyptians first had him as a classic modern Egyptian man - idealized - strong jawline - although the skeleton made it obviously inappropriate.
First he was very "white", and then in order not to cause a ruckus that was changed to much darker. I was told for a while he looked like Vin Diesel, then changed again.
Eventually they decided just to do a check of the skin tone of Dr.Zahi himself and go with that! :cyclops:

[Ausar]

Why didn't they use the skintone of a modern Upper Egyptian around Luxor? Don't you think a southern Egyptian would have been a better example of an ancient Egyptian pharaoh like Tut-ankh-amun? Zahi Hawass is from the Delta around Daimetta where lots of Arabs migrated and intermingled with the local people. If you are to find the original phenoype in the ancient Egyptian population then look no further than modern day southern Egyptians.



Tut-ankh-Amun came from modern day Luxor. Generally many Egyptologist and Kent R Weeks who examined the 17th and 18th dyansty mummies agreed that many had similarities with Wadi Halfa Nubians living in Egyptian Nubia.





Modern Egypt has a diverse array of skin tones from a Mediterrane complexion down to a dark brown.

[Dienrose]

Ausar wrote: Why didn't they use the skintone of a modern Upper Egyptian around Luxor? Don't you think a southern Egyptian would have been a better example of an ancient Egyptian pharaoh like Tut-ankh-amun? Zahi Hawass is from the Delta around Daimetta where lots of Arabs migrated and intermingled with the local people. If you are to find the original phenoype in the ancient Egyptian population then look no further than modern day southern Egyptians.



Tut-ankh-Amun came from modern day Luxor. Generally many Egyptologist and Kent R Weeks who examined the 17th and 18th dyansty mummies agreed that many had similarities with Wadi Halfa Nubians living in Egyptian Nubia.





Modern Egypt has a diverse array of skin tones from a Mediterrane complexion down to a dark brown.

Good point Ausar! I'm just reporting what I heard. :wink: