Your Egypt

[Wedi]

What characteristics distinguish a truly religious person from one who is average?

Is it the hidden, internal ways of worship that others cannot see? Or, is it consistency in religious behavior? Maybe it is acts instead of words?

What sets a real person of God apart from others?

[fridaies]

I just wanted to reply : I donot know!
I can not help remembering what elshekh el tahtawy said when he went to France i saw there islam without muslims while we have muslims without islam.
So, should the religious person be recognized as the one who is first to prayers, first to Haj and all the 3ebadat..or should he be identified as the person who is helpful to others, generous and really kind at heart.
It would have been easy of course if the 2 characters coincided, which is definetly not the case.
Specially like Tahtawy when u make the definition and relating to what u r seeing around u in the society; U cannot help but wonder what is religion about..is it just about prayers or about being a part of an active society where every person unconsciously does his duties..
IT is very difficult to say because at the end u will be faced with the Q, what about Osama ben Laden, can he be considered religious, utmost religious man or terrorist!
Probably there is even no answer..We will just have to wait and see the end! then we will know!

[Guest]

Good topic. I have no iea what the answer to your question is though.

[Laura]

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[Wedi]

fridaies wrote: I just wanted to reply : I donot know!
I can not help remembering what elshekh el tahtawy said when he went to France i saw there islam without muslims while we have muslims without islam.
So, should the religious person be recognized as the one who is first to prayers, first to Haj and all the 3ebadat..or should he be identified as the person who is helpful to others, generous and really kind at heart.
It would have been easy of course if the 2 characters coincided, which is definetly not the case.
Specially like Tahtawy when u make the definition and relating to what u r seeing around u in the society; U cannot help but wonder what is religion about..is it just about prayers or about being a part of an active society where every person unconsciously does his duties..
IT is very difficult to say because at the end u will be faced with the Q, what about Osama ben Laden, can he be considered religious, utmost religious man or terrorist!
Probably there is even no answer..We will just have to wait and see the end! then we will know!

I don't know the answer either! Surely, its ones who's hearts are pure, and motives true, and God knows who they are. I guess we can tell by a person's character over time how religious they are. If we see they have pure motives, love for others, kindness, compassion, repentance, and they struggle for the right reasons maybe we can begin to get a feeling if this person is for real or putting on a good show.

[Monica]

lemme tell ya ah ah ah....
I think and this is only my humble opinion that a good person/from any religion is someone who is CORRECT...

meaning..a person that respects themselves and others and does what they think or what they were brought up to think is best in terms of good deeds towards humanity..

In terms of Islam...
Since it is interpreted so differently by scholars and individuals...I remember something that left an impact since childhood:

'El a3mal bel neyat' meaning it is all a matter of intention so:

If people show off they are praying but in reality they are not , or if they are in fact praying and then go steal or kill or whatever and then go to Mecca and do HAJ, and think that they are going to be rewarded or whatever, well good for them but in reality what counts are the good intentions and after all religion is a personal communication with GOD who is after all in us all ..

so we follow what we interpret and what the majority interprets, and Allah A3lam with our genuine intentions!!

PERSONAL OPINION wallahy!!

[Wedi]

All good answers Fridaies, Laura and Monica

Yeah it seems good intentions..........what's in the heart....then how those intentions are implemented....would be one of the marks of a pious man or woman...maybe also a spirit of 'helping others', for the sake of making them better people or fulfilling a need, but doing so quietly.

[fridaies]

I guess the question is now what about people who have no religion and then their intentions are good and their deeds are good.
I think that this is a dilemma that many muslims fall into when they live in a foreign hard working community..At least this is one of the problems that young dutch muslims of arabic or turkish origins face..Their Shiekhs in the mosques keep telling them that the dutch people are just pigs with no morals whatsoever and should be thrown to the sea!!!!
For myself, i see that they donot have religion, but very far from being pigs!!! but what can u say when some muslims would bluntly say that anything done without the intention of it being for God's love then it is worthless?

[Monica]

I find that the best solution for us is to rely on our intelligence and logic...meaning we learned our religion, we questionned it at some point, we got different answers from different scholars, sheikhs etc.. we read a lot, and finally we formed our own intelligent and logical opinion, based on what we understood and what makes sense...
I go by that rule...and stopped questionning and asking sheikhs..and stopped even going to lectures...it gets so confusing because evidently some of the lecturers have a hidden agenda.

fridaies wrote: I guess the question is now what about people who have no religion and then their intentions are good and their deeds are good.
I think that this is a dilemma that many muslims fall into when they live in a foreign hard working community..At least this is one of the problems that young dutch muslims of arabic or turkish origins face..Their Shiekhs in the mosques keep telling them that the dutch people are just pigs with no morals whatsoever and should be thrown to the sea!!!!
For myself, i see that they donot have religion, but very far from being pigs!!! but what can u say when some muslims would bluntly say that anything done without the intention of it being for God's love then it is worthless?

[Laura]

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[Wedi]

fridaies wrote: I guess the question is now what about people who have no religion and then their intentions are good and their deeds are good.
I think that this is a dilemma that many muslims fall into when they live in a foreign hard working community..At least this is one of the problems that young dutch muslims of arabic or turkish origins face..Their Shiekhs in the mosques keep telling them that the dutch people are just pigs with no morals whatsoever and should be thrown to the sea!!!!
For myself, i see that they donot have religion, but very far from being pigs!!! but what can u say when some muslims would bluntly say that anything done without the intention of it being for God's love then it is worthless?

I think a person can have a basic sense of morality even if they haven't been exposed to religion much. Its their nature. It seems that God would be pleased to see folks loving each other and treating each other with compassion. Maybe those are the people chosen to be given the opportunity to hear God's word, and get on the right path. They may hear about a religion that is right for them, and something clicks inside..........an 'aha' moment.

[Monica]

Just this evening actually, I heard about that snapping moment of religious decision!!!
See the positive story thread...
:)

...
="fridaies"]I guess the question is now what about people who have no religion and then their intentions are good and their deeds are good.
I think that this is a dilemma that many muslims fall into when they live in a foreign hard working community..At least this is one of the problems that young dutch muslims of arabic or turkish origins face..Their Shiekhs in the mosques keep telling them that the dutch people are just pigs with no morals whatsoever and should be thrown to the sea!!!!
For myself, i see that they donot have religion, but very far from being pigs!!! but what can u say when some muslims would bluntly say that anything done without the intention of it being for God's love then it is worthless?[/quote]

I think a person can have a basic sense of morality even if they haven't been exposed to religion much. Its their nature. It seems that God would be pleased to see folks loving each other and treating each other with compassion. Maybe those are the people chosen to be given the opportunity to hear God's word, and get on the right path. They may hear about a religion that is right for them, and something clicks inside..........an 'aha' moment.[/quote]

[Luxorlover]

Perhaps God sometimes lives in the man without the man knowing he is there.

Some of the most devout, honest and caring people in the world are Buddhists and they have no God at all. They are not Idolators either. Perhaps that is where the difference lies?

[Monica]

Not a bad point.
Perhaps the man does not 'believe' that God lives in him??
And since we are on the religion thread we can maybe pose another question.
When a woman converts to Islam but her husband does not, what is her status vis à vis Islam?
I remember a case...where a Muslim man ( Dr Nasr Abu zeid) was asked to divorce his Muslim wife after he was 'accused of being Un Islamic in his lectures/books/writings/ by high ranked Islamic scholars in Egypt and was declared NOT Muslim. The couple is now living in Holland. It was a controversial story.
Anyone wishes to discuss this issue?


Luxorlover wrote: Perhaps God sometimes lives in the man without the man knowing he is there.

Some of the most devout, honest and caring people in the world are Buddhists and they have no God at all. They are not Idolators either. Perhaps that is where the difference lies?

[fridaies]

sorry, repeated posting