Your Egypt

Hedgehog · Joined: 10 Mar 2005 Posts: 5171 Location: UK

Reading on another forum I was surprised to read that ....rather than report domestic violence wives would prefer to say nothing to the authorities. That they would not want to see husbands go to jail, which would mean they would have to earn money to feed the family......AND that their families would not help them.
I understand that in Islam is is in order for the male to hit the wife if she has offended him, and he can prevent her from sharing the marital bed.
I have read it is quite common for Turkish Muslims to beat their wives and that recently when advised by enlightened Imams to stop this, there was a riot.
WELL.... if any male hit me... Islam or not........I would not share his bed.
What are the views about this out dated piece of Islam. Are those of you who are Muslim 'happy' to be hit by your husbands :?: :?: :?: Those who have converted 'happy' about this :?: :?: :?:

KayCee · Posted: Tue Apr 12, 2005 12:32 pm Post subject:

Im happy with a well timed tap on my butt from time to time but never hitting. :wink: :oops: :lol: I believe if you can even raise your hand in anger at another person whom you supposedly love, then its time for seirous re evaluation of that relationship & of yourself. I believe violence is never the answer.

Harrison · Joined: 28 Jul 2004 Posts: 901

I remember my father saying when i was a child: Any man who hits a woman, isn't a man.

I do believe that.

Poly · Joined: 16 Mar 2005 Posts: 254

As I am both woman and Muslim, I heard about hitting the wife in Islam, but what I know is that it should only be used in the cases where the wife is treating her husband in a very bad way or actually acting herself in a bad way.. something like that.. and after he tried to talk with her in all possible ways.. and by the hitting has to be very slight like when you slightly hit the hand of a child if he did something wrong.. and never a slap on the face... from where did this come from? I think it was mentioned by Prophet Mohamed, however, as I know there are many saying by the Prophet are considered weak, I use my mind as well.. I read about an incident where the Prophet's wife raised her voice while talking to him during an argument and her father heard her and was about to slap her on the face, but the Prophet prevented him to do so.. thinking about that, I question the idea that Islam allowed hitting the wife because after all, marriage should be based on love, care and respect.. don't think you achieve this by hitting. On the other side, many Muslim men use this saying by the Prophet and interpret it in being allowed to hit their wives, and by also hitting her all the time for any reason (didn’t make the food on time or with extra salt) and in a violent way.. the thing that shocks me that I met many women (Egyptians and Italians), that how do I put it?? not that they think there is nothing wrong with it (being hit by their husbands or partners) but they make justifications for this act (like it was me who started the fight so that's why he hit me, but he apologized after that).. some of them (if married), stay with the husband for the kids sake, which in my opinion is wrong, because staying with an abusive husband will affect both you and the kids.. who will guarantee that he will not get abusive with the kids as well.. I am sorry I am writing a very long post but this issue is very important for every woman and for me personally.. it touched a nerve.. I have mentioned the Islam point of view in this to clarify some saying but in the same time, I don't agree with it.. If you are not happy with your wife and think she is not good for you, then go for divorce but NEVER raise your hand on her.. there is no justification what so ever.. I will stop now..

Hedgehog · Joined: 10 Mar 2005 Posts: 5171 Location: UK

Thank you Poly that was very interesting :D :D

tellmewhy · Joined: 26 Nov 2004 Posts: 1338

Well, regardless of their cultural or religions background, there are battered women in all corners of the Earth. It's may be difficult to understand how and why a woman allows herself to become a "battered woman", but there are so many reasons that I can totally understand and can easily affect any woman. Among those reasons: women feel they are the ones responsible for making the marriage work; adverse economic consequences; it is more dangerous to leave than to stay; prior threats by batterer to kill self, or children; or to abscond with children; lost self-esteem; and no psychological energy to leave - resulting in a learned helplessness or psychological paralysis.

As for it being allowed in Islam to beat one's wife, that is a male chauvinistic interpretation of what is originally very benign text. As Poly said, some individuals will interpret certain issues to suit their own purposes, whatever they may be.

Winky · Joined: 20 Dec 2004 Posts: 4586

:) Personally I am not even keen on so called "playful" pats on my behind or any where, a person should not raise his hand towards another human being, full stop. We can communicate if there is displeasure.
While I was reading all your posts I could not agree more with you and I would certainly do my best to help any woman who is finding herself in this distressing humiliating circumstance.

As TMW you will find this kind of abuse all around the world from high to low and even vice versa, woman abusing man.
Here is a link related to Muslim wife abuse in the States and Canada:

http://www.jannah.org/sisters/wifeabuse.html

Hedgehog · Joined: 10 Mar 2005 Posts: 5171 Location: UK

Very interesting artical Winky...... :shock: :shock:

Poly · Joined: 16 Mar 2005 Posts: 254

as long as we are on the subject, you may like to check out
http://web.amnesty.org/actforwomen/index-eng

KayCee · Posted: Thu Apr 14, 2005 12:19 am Post subject:

I was not going to reply to this topic but ........ I just came from an all day training conference on this very topic... my nerves are fried & my brain is about to pop!

I could pontificate for houres on this but I will just say this:

IF you can raise your hand to someone in anger or someone could raise their hand to you in anger..... its not love , its not worth it, its not going to change... GET OUT OF IT!

Poly · Joined: 16 Mar 2005 Posts: 254

I think the same KayCee and 100% agree, but it is not always easy to get out.. as TMW said there are many reasons that can affect any woman..
I met women who understand they have to get out, but because of the kids and because of the society that is expecting the woman to work out any problems in her marriage, they just continue in the marriage. if a woman chose to get a divorce, she will be either left out with not enough means of support or none.. moreover, people still look differently to the divorced woman in Egypt and I am saying differently meaning not in a good way (sad but true), and to be socially acceptable in a country like Egypt is very important esp. for women..

KayCee · Posted: Thu Apr 14, 2005 6:40 pm Post subject:

Poly wrote: I think the same KayCee and 100% agree, but it is not always easy to get out.. as TMW said there are many reasons that can affect any woman..
I met women who understand they have to get out, but because of the kids and because of the society that is expecting the woman to work out any problems in her marriage, they just continue in the marriage. if a woman chose to get a divorce, she will be either left out with not enough means of support or none.. moreover, people still look differently to the divorced woman in Egypt and I am saying differently meaning not in a good way (sad but true), and to be socially acceptable in a country like Egypt is very important esp. for women.. I agree, hoever many women know there will be trouble before they even get married... this is to whom Im speaking... I know its not always easy to leave, in fact im sure its almost never easy to leave... I have always felt strongly about this, but yesterday after my raiting session, the pictures the tapes I had to listen too... :cry: .

One last thing... is it more important to be *socially accepted* or portect your children & yourself from being injured & possibly killed? :?

tellmewhy · Joined: 26 Nov 2004 Posts: 1338

KayCee wrote:
One last thing... is it more important to be *socially accepted* or portect your children & yourself from being injured & possibly killed? :? [/b][/color]

That's where social conditioning comes in, Kay. If a woman's been brought up all her life to put social acceptance as the center of her universe, then as you imagine it will be incredibly difficult to make her understand or think otherwise :roll: Different cultures will prioritise different aspects. Take traditional, rural Japan for instance. Parents come before everything else, including wife, children, work, and even self. A traditional Japanese person cannot even comprehend how North Americans could treat their parents or elders 'disrespectfully' the way they do, while to us it's the most natural thing in the world.

But I digress. Just wanted to say that social conditioning and norms can be the most difficult to change.

Lori · Joined: 25 Apr 2004 Posts: 132 Location: Prague

Actually domestic violence is spread all over the world, it is not a question of religion.

The recent trend is that domestic violence is increasing towards men as well! Husbands get beaten too!

Beating another human being, for whatever reason, is a proof of lack of self-control. Any society that wants to be labelled progressive must support behaviours displaying self-mastery and condone behaviors proving lack of self-control.

:!:

Explorer the eighth · Joined: 01 Oct 2005 Posts: 818 Location: England

I'd like to take these people who are guilty of domestic violence (most, but not all, of whom will be men) and place them in a boxing ring or wrestling ring with a professional boxer; kick boxer or wrestler and let them see what it's like to be on the receiving end for a change.