Your Egypt

[SeaBird]

Hi EveryOne

As this part of the Forum has been deserted since Alna posted that article about the Middle Eastern Populations/Societies (Dated May 10);
I decided to get Politics back into Life by posting here a piece of information that surprized me a lot.
It doesn't have any relevance to Alna's topic, may be it has, as it provides the foreigners with a channel to see an internal Egyptian Clash of Intersets: Secular Advocates vs the Islamists ones.

In Egypt,
America is pressing our Government both directly & indirectly through whoever America supports financially of the civil groups to separate State from Faith/Religion. The Egyptian Marines in the Press/TV Channels call for getting Egypt reform its Constitution to be Secular instead of having a Statement that says: Islam is the Official Faith of Egypt & Islam's Sharia is the Basis for all the Legezlations/Laws. They, the Egyptian Marines, always use USA as their Model country when they attack that Islamic part of the Constitution.
I can say that it is just a Statement in our Constitution, the Government is made of Pragmatic TechnoChrats/Businessmen, and the Parliament is dominated by the Majority of the Government's Party (El Watany). So, even a Statement in the Egyptian Constitution makes the NeoCons in Washington allergic as it mentions Islam's Sharia demanding its getting Deleted.

After this Introduction; you may now read this copy/paste from CNN.Com:

" Carter also offered a harsh assessment for the White House's Office of Faith-Based and Community Initiatives, which helped religious charities receive $2.15 billion in federal grants in fiscal year 2005 alone.

"The policy from the White House has been to allocate funds to religious institutions, even those that channel those funds exclusively to their own particular group of believers in a particular religion," Carter said.

"As a traditional Baptist, I've always believed in separation of church and state and honored that premise when I was president, and so have all other presidents, I might say, except this one*."
* G W Bush

Now, what do you think?

[Louise]

As a U.S. citizen, I am not aware of my country attempting to impose an Egyptian trend toward secular politics. Have you links to verifiable examples of this?

Religion has no place in politics, in my opinion. Former President Carter is correct to criticize this administration's attempt to bring his religious view into political life. Mr. Bush will prove to be the worst president in history.

I would be interested to hear arguments in favor of a national religion. Why is this a good thing? Is it not another attempt to control the lives of citizens?

[SeaBird]

In El Ahram (semi-official / government owned newspaper) of Friday 18 May, 2007, I read an article for Farouk Guida
a prominent Egyptian Intellectual who is regularly invited as a guest speaker to the cultural meetings, latest that I attended was in Alex, organized by the civil group I am a member of; "Friends of Bibliotheca Alexandrina".

The article mentioned that our Education Ministry had " Foreign" experts to set for us the Arabic Language syllabus/courses!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Our Arabic Native Language courses for the elementary schools to be designed by "Foreign" experts???????

The Quranic Verses in these courses were Deleted, Hadith was also Deleted!!!!!!!!!

Religion courses were revised by those "Foreign" experts where every Quranic Verse speaking about the Jews was Deleted!!

In the same issue, in another page there was an interview with the Education Minister, Nothing was mentioned about the topic in that article but only about "Foreign" experts were working on our "Arabic" language courses to present them in a Multimedia format to make our Kids "love" to "learn" their native language instead of the present "hating" to learn it.
The Funding of this computerised languistic courses was presented by the American Government suming to 100 Million Dollars.
We All know that the US Aid to Egypt Must be spent (returned) using American Firms/Personnel.

So, part of Farouk Guida's article was confirmed in the Interview of the Education Minister: American Experts are working on our Arabic Language Courses.

Immagine if you wake up one day finding Egyptian Experts are working on delivering the English Language courses in the way they find easier and more efficient than your American Experts, can you accept this NonSense?

We have an Entire Generation of what I call Computer Wizards, Magicians/Witches. Every Year American Software companies Hunt the Genius of this generation to work for them.

I agree with Farouk Awida that Our Language is a Red Limit for any "Foreign" ones to tresspass into

I agree that those 100 Million Dollars Fund should go To Hell
No Foreign one should tell us How to teach our Native Language, whether in a classical paper form or in a software format.
We are not Illeterate with computer software.

We Taught All, I repeat All the Arab countries How to make courses, How to Teach, How to design Exams,
Now we have the Americans telling us How to teach our own Native Language!
Ordering us Delete this, keep that!

[saffron]

The Baptists I know don't want a separation of church and State. And they are almost always Republicans and bigoted.

I do believe in the separation of church and State. Government should not be involved in religion. And religion should not try and govern people.

I believe that the "culture" in the Middle East is corrupt. In particular, the way that the government and the Muslim faith is one and the same. Their way of governing the personal lives of it's people is outdated... to say the least.

Culture in the Middle East is so far behind the times. It isn't growing, but staying the same, and stuck in the past. If people aren't allowed to grow, they stagnate and their souls die.

[saffron]

SeaBird wrote: In El Ahram (semi-official / government owned newspaper) of Friday 18 May, 2007, I read an article for Farouk Guida
a prominent Egyptian Intellectual who is regularly invited as a guest speaker to the cultural meetings, latest that I attended was in Alex, organized by the civil group I am a member of; "Friends of Bibliotheca Alexandrina".

The article mentioned that our Education Ministry had " Foreign" experts to set for us the Arabic Language syllabus/courses!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Our Arabic Native Language courses for the elementary schools to be designed by "Foreign" experts???????

The Quranic Verses in these courses were Deleted, Hadith was also Deleted!!!!!!!!!

Religion courses were revised by those "Foreign" experts where every Quranic Verse speaking about the Jews was Deleted!!

In the same issue, in another page there was an interview with the Education Minister, Nothing was mentioned about the topic in that article but only about "Foreign" experts were working on our "Arabic" language courses to present them in a Multimedia format to make our Kids "love" to "learn" their native language instead of the present "hating" to learn it.
The Funding of this computerised languistic courses was presented by the American Government suming to 100 Million Dollars.
We All know that the US Aid to Egypt Must be spent (returned) using American Firms/Personnel.

So, part of Farouk Guida's article was confirmed in the Interview of the Education Minister: American Experts are working on our Arabic Language Courses.

Immagine if you wake up one day finding Egyptian Experts are working on delivering the English Language courses in the way they find easier and more efficient than your American Experts, can you accept this NonSense?

We have an Entire Generation of what I call Computer Wizards, Magicians/Witches. Every Year American Software companies Hunt the Genius of this generation to work for them.

I agree with Farouk Awida that Our Language is a Red Limit for any "Foreign" ones to tresspass into

I agree that those 100 Million Dollars Fund should go To Hell
No Foreign one should tell us How to teach our Native Language, whether in a classical paper form or in a software format.
We are not Illeterate with computer software.

We Taught All, I repeat All the Arab countries How to make courses, How to Teach, How to design Exams,
Now we have the Americans telling us How to teach our own Native Language!
Ordering us Delete this, keep that!
Do you know what your probem is? You don't want to change. America is forcing you to change, and you hate that. You'd rather be stuck in the past with your barbaric and outdated ideas and beliefs and your idiotic chauvinistic mind.

[Louise]

Please do not think that all U.S. citizens think as Saffron does. I would never presume to tell anyone what "your problem is." Nor do I know enough about the Middle East to venture an opinion about "corrupt...behind the times....culture and barbaric beliefs."

Unless Saffron has spent time in the Middle East, I hardly think he/she is an expert or should be offering opinions in such an insulting manner.

This is deserving of an apology, in my opinion.

[RoughShod]

Saffron, I fail to see why you show such a lack of tolerance for other's way of speech when you seem to be critizising their lack of tolerance to your way of thinking. It seems to prove the point that the point you are making is the only one that is correct while you deem all others wrong and reserve the right to judge them instead of realizing that by their own way of thinking they have full right to judge you according to their own laws. What makes you think that because you feel you have the moral ground to judge them, that they respect your moral ground?. If you really think you have something to say, do not speak to a rock that has its foundations and history for just about forever where it stands and expect it to melt into a garden of flowers fit for your nose to smell.

Rather stand on your moral high ground humbly(because I am sure you know yourself you really nothing in the scheme of things, its only your believe in your faith that allows you not to look as dirty rags) and realize that what you think is right, should help you become a better person for others to emulate by the way you live your life, not by the way you judge others.

[Louise]

Agreed.

[patrick2007]

yes that advice sounds good to me also :-)

[Louise]

Saffron has not returned?